Advanced Gundogs
When you don’t want to start a dog from scratch
It's all a matter of time. The fact that you're reading Shooting Sportsman tells me that you love wingshooting and fine shotguns and that you likely think a good bird hunt is the finest form of sport. However, good bird hunts typically depend on good gundogs, and creating good gundogs takes time—lots of time.
There are basically four ways to get a quality gundog: Buy or breed a puppy and train it yourself, buy a puppy and send it to a trainer, buy a 10- to 18-month-old started dog and finish training it, or buy a finished dog that will be the envy of anyone lucky enough to hunt over it.
Although hunters might dream of raising a puppy and training it into a stylish gundog, most simply don't have the time or resources. Many of us live in the suburbs or the city and lack access to pen-raised or wild birds, good training habitat, training skills, and the most crucial ingredient: time. If you have all of these essentials, consider yourself living a blessed life. Most dog owners are severely challenged to find 30 or 40 acres of suitable habitat where they can release birds, shoot guns, blow whistles repeatedly, and let their dogs run free. Often in the time it would take to drive to such a place, a professional trainer could have a dog trained and fed.
Retrievers require extra training to handle blind retrieves.
As for buying a puppy and sending it to a trainer, that can be challenging as well. Besides the housebreaking messes, ruined furniture and chewed-up shoes, convincing your family to send the dog away for three to six months is often a hard sell. And even if you do send the pup away, there's no guarantee of good results and the expense can be prohibitive—ranging from $500 a month to more than $1,000. You can run up a $5,000 training bill and still be told that the dog needs work. Add that to the $500 to $2,500 prices we're all used to paying for puppies out of good hunting or trialing bloodlines, and you're talking a substantial amount of money.
So with this in mind, how would it sound if a professional dog trainer offered you a young, athletic, well-bred, handsome, field-proven dog with several hundred birds and several hundred hours of training under its belt for $6,000? Would you think that was a good deal? I would. In fact, I'd think it was a great deal.
It's the "been there, done that" hunter with some financial resources who sees the value in buying a proven dog that is ready to hit the ground running—literally. The trouble is that there are a lot of terms and variables that may be confusing when evaluating trained hunting dogs. Terms such as "started dog," "finished dog," "broke dog" and even "meat dog" are helpful in describing the abilities of various prospects. The definitions of those terms vary widely, and here I will attempt to clear up any confusion—and hopefully set a standard to go by.
"Finished" Waterfowl & Upland Dogs
There is a great divide between waterfowl dogs and upland pointing dogs. It takes a great deal more training to finish a duck retriever than it does a pointing quail dog. In his book "The Labrador Shooting Dog" author Mike Gould describes the process of finishing a Lab for all hunting situations, from flushing and retrieving pheasants in tall CRP grass to 400-yard blind retrieves. "It's a three-year process to build a completely finished Labrador shooting dog," Gould says.
Dave Alvarez (760-638-0241; alvawedge@hotmail.com), of Carbondale, Colorado, has been guiding bird hunts and training and brokering gundogs for 45 years. He agrees that it can take years to finish a waterfowl dog. "Pointing dogs are easier to finish," Alvarez said, "but it's still very hard to finish a pointing dog in less than a year." Why the difference?
According to Alvarez, the job description for a finished, or "broke," upland pointing dog includes: the ability to hunt the field, find birds and hold point until the birds are flushed; being "Whoa broke," or knowing to stop dead at the command "Whoa"; being steady to wing & shot (remaining still until released after the bird flies and the gun is fired); "backing," or "honoring," another dog's point; and being "force broke to retrieve"—that is, retrieving practically anything on command and retrieving dead birds to hand.
Both pointers and retrievers must deliver to hand to qualify as finished.
A waterfowl retriever, on the other hand, is expected to do all of the tasks of a finished pointer (except point, of course) in addition to making marked retrieves and blind retrieves, complete with hand signals. And therein lies the rub: It can take months to train a dog to "handle" to a remote location as far away as 400 yards to make a retrieve on a bird the dog didn't see fly or fall.
Of course a flushing dog doesn't need to honor or back a dog on point, nor should it be "Whoa" broke. What it should do is sit to wing & shot, retrieve, and honor another dog that is sent for a retrieve. It also must sit instantly when it hears one sharp blast on a whistle, no matter how far away it is, and it must respond to other whistle commands. Both pointers and retrievers should be collar conditioned, although a dog that has attained this level of training without an electronic collar is even more prized.
There are Junior Hunter, Senior Hunter and Master Hunter titles for retrievers as well as pointing dogs, and a dog that has achieved a Master Hunter title is a proven finished gundog. A Senior Hunter has demonstrated similar skills but in tests that were not as difficult. A Junior Hunter has demonstrated mastery of basic hunting skills. (For excellent information on hunt tests and field trials, visit Wichita, Kansas, trainer Lonny Taylor's website: www.proretrievertraining.com.)
Hunters have developed tests for versatile gundogs that are capable of finding, pointing and retrieving game in the uplands and finding and retrieving birds in water. A NAVHDA (North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association) or NAGDA (North American Gun Dog Association) title demonstrates a high level of training and achievement. For upland dogs, a National Shoot to Retrieve Association (NSTRA) title demonstrates a similar level of achievement. Of course, if a waterfowl dog or pointing dog has achieved an AKC field championship, that is indicative of superb training, breeding and natural talent.
What Are They Worth?
Kirby Rust of Outback Kennels (www.outbackgundogs.com), in Kensington, Kansas, knows exactly what finished dogs are worth. Rust is a gundog broker and trainer specializing in German shorthairs and English pointers, although he also deals with Brittanys, springer span-iels, English setters, Drahthaars and Labs. He sells upward of 200 adult dogs a year at prices up to $7,500.
In addition to water work for marked retrieves.
Rust's criteria for a finished pointing dog are basically the same as Alvarez's—it must point, retrieve and honor. He also adds another: "For me, a finished gundog must have been hunted on wild birds for at least a season. Started dogs can do everything on pen-raised birds, but they need a season on wild birds to finish them off.
"The things that make a dog valuable are looks and conformation, training, pedigree, age and titles." A nice broke dog with average looks and an average pedigree that is a little older at four or five years and is a good, solid citizen is worth $3,500 or so. A young, flashy dog with a great pedigree, great talent, solid training and an NSTRA or Master Hunter title might easily sell for $7,500.
And if the dog has an AKC field championship? "Prohibitive," Alvarez said. "At least $10,000, if not much, much more."
Meat Dogs
What if a guy can't play in that league? Are there cheaper dogs that still can be fun hunting companions? "Absolutely," Alvarez said. "There are lots of 'meat dogs' out there that you can keep in the house and take out on weekends and kill birds over." Such dogs are the blue-collar workers of the gundog world, and despite the connotations, the term "meat dog" is actually a compliment. Simply put: These are dogs that will put game in the bag. They may not have sparkling pedigrees or the best looks, "but they have medium to advanced hunting and retrieving skills, and they'll hunt their tails off," Alvarez said. "A pointing dog, for example, may drop a bird six feet away and go find another one."
A finished retriever will take hand signals to a fall it did not see.
The concept of "pretty is as pretty does" is strong here. Mike Gould relates the story of a Texas quail guide who was told, "That dog of yours has the ugliest point I've ever seen." To which the guide replied, "Yeah, and have you noticed how many times that dog has been ugly today?"
A good meat dog might be a Lab that flushes and retrieves pheasants and grouse and can do a workmanlike job in the duck blind but that has no idea how to handle a blind retrieve. The training simply isn't there, but there's plenty of on-the-ground experience.
A fair price for a good meat dog might range from $1,000 to $3,500, depending on many intangibles. Such dogs might not have pedigrees and they might be a little older, up to six or seven, but they will have lots of natural desire and experience. Sometimes a dog may be lacking a "12 o'clock tail" on point or have a bit of an underbite, making it unsuitable for breeding, but such a dog can be a great value as an all-around hunting dog.
How do you find a meat dog? Visit with the guys at the hunting preserve. Call trainers. See if there's a local guy who runs the field-trial circuit. Also keep an eye on the want ads. Death and divorce may be someone else's misfortune but your good fortune.
Started Dogs
For the hunter seeking a younger, flashier dog with talent and some training that is not yet finished, a started dog might be the answer. "The term 'started dog' is a very general term open to many interpretations," Alvarez said. "In my opinion, started dogs have all or most of their core obedience training. These dogs are 10 months to a year old and will find and retrieve birds. Retrievers have been force-fetched, which means they will hold a bird or deliver it to hand. Retrievers won't yet do blind retrieves. Pointers are pointing and 'Whoa' broke but not steady to wing & shot and not retrieving to hand."
Let's back up and cover obedience training. A started dog should know the basics of "Sit," "Heel," "Stay" and "Here." Have you ever tried to cram an unwilling dog into an airline crate? That's obedience training. A friend of mine just took back a so-called started Lab because the dog didn't even know its name and wasn't socialized to people at all, much less interested in retrieving a dummy. Just because someone kept a pup in a kennel for a year doesn't mean it's a started dog. It should go without saying, but a started dog should be leash trained, should be comfortable around guns, and should have been introduced to several types of birds—preferably wild birds. Retrievers should be able to perform 80- to 100-yard marked single retrieves, and if they are doing 50-yard marked double or triple retrieves, even better. A started dog should have had at least three months of training.
According to Alvarez, good, young started retrievers are worth $2,000 to $3,000, and pointers are bringing $1,500 to $2,500.
Finding a Dog
I interviewed several trainers known for their quality started and finished gundogs. Each had similar standards for those types of dogs; they also had some good tips regarding looking for dogs.
Define the job you want the dog to do. According to Rhett Kermicle of Wild Wing Kennels (www.wildwingkennel.com), in Sturgis, Kentucky, "When you're looking for a gundog, you should go and look for conditions similar to the places you hunt. Don't try a dog in open prairie when you're used to hunting grouse woods in Michigan." Usually a trainer will have access to habitat corresponding to your situation.
Quantities are limited. Most trainers who have dogs for sale will have five or six started dogs and only two or three finished dogs available each year. Brian Hays, who breeds the original line of Elhew pointers at his Chokebore Kennels (www.elhewkennels.org), in Mapleville, Rhode Island, breeds five to seven litters a year and keeps two or three puppies from each litter—one for breeding stock and the others to train as started dogs. He sells one or two finished dogs per year.
SSM Hunting Dogs Editor George Hickox of George Hickox Bird Dogs (www.georgehickox.com) has a limited supply as well. "My started and finished dogs are booked a year in advance," Hickox said. "If a guy has a dog available in September, right before hunting season, there must be a reason."
A finished dog should sit to wing & shot, retrieve, and honor another dog that is sent for a retrieve.
A field-trial dog can make an excellent hunting dog. Through the years, field-trial dogs have gotten a bad rap as being too much dog for the average hunter—casting too wide, running too big, being too hard-headed. "So you don't want to hunt over a national champion?" Hickox chuckled. "Is a field-trial dog going to handle worse than a regular hunt-ing dog? No. Will he find fewer birds? No. Is it a bad thing that you can train him to a higher level? No."
A finished gundog may be a better buy. "Finished gundogs have been through two seasons of hunting with us and may have seen 2,000 birds," said Kermicle of Wild Wing Kennel. "They're idiot-proof. They're going to go out and do the job whether you know what you're doing or not." Started dogs may be a bit young and uncertain and can lapse into bad habits with sloppy handling by untested new owners.
Wild birds are a crucial ingredient to success. Starting every September, Todd Agnew of Craney Hill Kennels, in New Lenox, Illinois (815-462-9806, www.craneyhill.com), takes a two-month jaunt across the Plains States. The sole purpose of the trip is to expose young dogs to wild birds—and lots of them. "By the time we're back from our road trip," Agnew said, "that year's crop of started dogs has each had at least 500 wild-bird contacts on everything from ruffed grouse to sharp-tailed grouse, Hungarian partridge, pheasants, chukar, California quail—you name it. They've been on and off the dog truck, they've been around ATVs, they've been on a chain gang. They've seen a lot of the world."
Dogs from guide programs make good all-around dogs. The repetition of going out with a variety of hunters on a regular basis and being exposed to hundreds or thousands of birds makes for a great companion dog. Curling up in your office or strolling through a pheasant field in Iowa is easy duty in comparison.
Don't buy a dog over the phone. Go and see the dog. "The whole reason to buy a started dog is that you can see the dog work," Agnew said. "If you're paying for a started or finished dog, you can see the Ferrari start. Go test-drive the Ferrari." All the trainers and brokers seem to agree on this point. The "fit" between dog and owner can't be established by photos on a Website or by the trainer's description over the phone.
"If the dog isn't a fit," said Hays of his Elhew dogs, "I won't sell him to you."
Take lessons in handling—make sure you know as much as the dog. "Before you get a gun and go hunting, you take the hunter's safety course," Hickox said. "You must do the same with your dog. Learn how to handle him and learn what he knows." You wouldn't buy a new plane without taking flying lessons, would you?
Ask the trainer what the dog can do. "Don't tell a trainer what you're looking for," Kirby Rust said. "Ask him what the dog does, and see if that fits your situation." A good trainer should be able to warrant what the dog can do and demonstrate it in the field—without a shock collar.
"See if the handler can show the dog without a collar." Kermicle said. "If he can't, then the dog probably won't do nearly as well for you." Each trainer should have a "can do" list similar to a "standard equipment and options" sticker on a new car. Force broke? Check. Steady to wing & shot? Check. Honors and backs? Check.
Is the dog socialized and good in the house? This is where many trainers and clients stand apart. It's impossible to bring 35 dogs into the house every night, and most trainers just won't think of it. But if you have only one dog and he's your buddy, it's important that the dog is friendly to the kids and good in the house. Many kennel dogs aren't housebroken, but they'll soon settle into a routine with one or two scoldings.
Don't dicker. Have you ever heard the term "wealthy dog trainer"? It's an oxymoron. If you count all of the hours a trainer spends finishing a gundog, you can figure he'd make more money working at McDonald's. If you really want the dog, pay the man and be happy with your new companion. If you don't want to pay the money, don't visit the kennels in the first place. Trainers have better things to do than deal with tire-kickers.
Will the dog bond with you? Are you kidding? You're the man now. As soon as the dog figures out that you're the keeper of the kibble, the man who drives the truck to the duck blind, the guy who shoots the quail, the dude who throws the training bumpers, the fellow who lets him curl up by the fireplace—you'll have a hunting buddy for life.
What if you don't hunt as much as the dog is used to? There are lots of retired fighter pilots who don't fly as much as they used to, either. The dog will settle into a routine. Regular exercise is extremely important for these high-powered dogs, and remember that food is not affection. Nothing is worse than seeing a dog that once rippled with muscle under a sleek coat turn into a fat pot-licker.
Can you bring back the dog for a tune-up/fine-tuning/finishing? You bet. That's a "perfect world" scenario, whereby the owner sends the dog to a good trainer for a month of conditioning and fine-tuning just prior to the commencement of hunting season. Trainers form an emotional bond with the dogs they train, and it's just like old times when the dog gets the chance to sharpen its skills before the big hunt. If you buy a started dog and think it is the real deal, you might consider paying the freight to get it finished. Of course, all of the wild birds and days in the field you can offer will only improve things.
Gary Hubbell lives in Crawford, Colorado, and works as a ranch real-estate broker, writer and photographer. He guides blue grouse and ptarmigan hunts in the fall. Visit his Website at www.aspenranchrealestate.com.
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Reader Comments:
Having trained, hunted, and trialed both retrievers (AKC $ UKC) and pointing dogs (American Field), I would say that gun dogs training a well bred retriever is no more difficult than training his pointing counterpart. Either could reasonably be expected to be a finished dog at 2 years old.
Training to a competitive level, retrievers and pointing dogs are very different. Still the time and effort required, and the risk in finishing even the best bred pups, though significant, is not much different.